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Date:	12/16/99 10:43:52 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, December 17 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1513<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
Re:  US Constitution [OT]<BR>
Re: Canonicy of YTU<BR>
Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
Re: Canonicy of YTU<BR>
Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
Re: Adventures with Security Folks<BR>
Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
Re: Mars exploration<BR>
Keyboard Casualties<BR>
Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
Re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
Ethnic Confusions (was: Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait))<BR>
Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
Re: <BR>
RE: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
RE: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
crime explained (was chicks with guns and other OT madness)<BR>
Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
Re: <BR>
racial make-up<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:39:21 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/16/99 12:40:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca writes:<BR>
<BR>
<<  Umm, yes? And I suspect that condition applies even more so for<BR>
 the UK and most of Western Europe (?). Not that there isn't (well,<BR>
 at least was) a thriving business in importing firearms from the US. >><BR>
<BR>
Don't forget that the Europeans still make  a LOT of smallarms. They just <BR>
aren't sold to the untermenschen....legally....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:46:17 -0600<BR>
From: Dan Roseberry <rosebee@troi.csw.net><BR>
Subject: Re:  US Constitution [OT]<BR>
<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson--<BR>
>snipage Congress v Clinton<<BR>
>This is exactly the kind of thing that caused Cleon I to become Emperor<BR>
<BR>
>Cleon....<BR>
<BR>
Well, I'll put 5Cr on Marava to whip all of em<BR>
On second thought, BC and the Congress might like that.....<BR>
<BR>
Dan Roseberry (plop101)  Hot Springs Arkansas<BR>
I need 8000Cr.....I have got to get off this planet fast!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:48:32 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Canonicy of YTU<BR>
<BR>
On 12/16/99 at 03:29 PM,  Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca> said:<BR>
<BR>
>	Without meaning to throw sparks on the dry tinder of<BR>
>	the canon issue, how many of you follow the official<BR>
>	rules and canon?  I use most of the CT rules that I<BR>
>	know of, and don't sweat the ones I don't know.  MTU<BR>
>	has numerous tweeks and house rules, and many facets<BR>
>	of the Imperium might make other cringe.  What is the<BR>
>	distribution of philosophies out there?<BR>
<BR>
Surely you jest! <g><BR>
<BR>
Okay, okay, I'll admit it, I'm a heretic. <weg><BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
    but then aren't we all?<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:58:30 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Silly Traveller<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/16/99 8:41:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< I grabbed a copy of the King James Bible off the net the other day, so<BR>
 I can look stuff like that up. There are several "better" versions, but<BR>
 I'd have had to grab them a chapter at a time, and that's take<BR>
 *forever*.  >><BR>
<BR>
In the interests of further confusing things, I have to interject this tidbit:<BR>
<BR>
The Torah (Old Testament) has a least one MAJOR change in it during the <BR>
translation process (Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English in the King James <BR>
Bible). In the ten Commandments, it is "Thou shall not MURDER", which in the <BR>
King James Bible is "Thou shall not kill". I call this major as it encourages <BR>
pacifism (which I don't believe in - see the 2nd Amem. flamewar). Is there <BR>
any other changes that is pertinent to the Ark?<BR>
<BR>
Seth<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:06:58 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Canonicy of YTU<BR>
<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Without meaning to throw sparks on the dry tinder of<BR>
> the canon issue, how many of you follow the official<BR>
> rules and canon?  I use most of the CT rules that I<BR>
> know of, and don't sweat the ones I don't know.  MTU<BR>
> has numerous tweeks and house rules, and many facets<BR>
> of the Imperium might make other cringe.  What is the<BR>
> distribution of philosophies out there?<BR>
<BR>
When it comes to canon, I'm a heretic, by way of Classic Traveller<BR>
fundamentalism. There were a hell of a lot more options open back in those<BR>
days, and many of those options have been shut off by later developments in<BR>
the universe.<BR>
<BR>
Rules? Hmmm... I'm not sure. I might run GURPS, or I might run CT for my<BR>
next campaign. I haven't decided.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:12:23 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: chicks with guns, and 3I porno<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/16/99 2:01:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Gun ownership in th UK is almost non-existent, even amongst criminals.  <BR>
Many<BR>
 people have probably never even seen a gun (other than museums/TV etc).  The<BR>
 problem the US has is that guns are already in circulation and it's<BR>
 difficult to see how they could ever be removed. >><BR>
<BR>
BTW, that reminds me. What ever happened to the story of that female newsie <BR>
who got the back of her head blown off? Did they ever catch the killer?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:13:44 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/16/99 2:16:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
Jason.Kemp@tdh.state.tx.us writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Happy Holidays, (or whatever you choose to celebrate,)<BR>
 Jason Kemp >><BR>
<BR>
Great job. Go work for the feds...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:09:29 +0000<BR>
From: Bradley L Houston <brhoust@juno.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Adventures with Security Folks<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> The security personnel were unconvinced that the contents of the box <BR>
> were<BR>
> a toy even though it was in the original packaging (I was bringing <BR>
> it to a<BR>
> panel discussion I was part of and the original packaging really is <BR>
> the<BR>
> best possible protection for it-- it cost me a lot of money to get <BR>
> here in<BR>
> the US as the shipping was almost as much as the toy) and so they <BR>
> made me<BR>
> remove it, put in the batteries, and demonstrate it for them.<BR>
> <BR>
> To the great amusement and irritation of others waiting in line.  <BR>
> Oh, and<BR>
> Sailor Moon told the big burly security guard that his lucky color <BR>
> was<BR>
> pink and he was about to meet the most wonderful boy!<BR>
> <BR>
> Kiri  =)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
There was a  Harry Harrison novel (The Stainless Steel Rat....)  where<BR>
the locals took everything you brought with you and issued you a<BR>
bumblebee suit for your visit.  At what law level would a prudent planet<BR>
follow suit?  After all, they _know_ the planet next door has a higher<BR>
tech level and can design things their scanners cannot detect.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bradley Houston<BR>
<BR>
tc+   ?t4>+  @ge  3i(+)   c+  jt  au  @ls  pi+()  so-()  zh vi-  da  <BR>
Brad Houston 0509 C478855-C S so- zh vi da 623<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:19:33 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I'm always confused by caucasians' inability to tell<BR>
> one asian race from another: usually, I get it about<BR>
> right (though some chinese look korean). What's more,<BR>
> they think it makes no difference.<BR>
<BR>
Once a friend of mine at school, a Korean, was asked if she was Chinese by<BR>
another friend of mine at school (who incidentally isn't caucasian, but<BR>
that's beside the point). On the way to class, she complained about the<BR>
inability of people to differentiate Koreans from Chinese.<BR>
<BR>
After she was finished, I asked her what ethnic group I was from, and she<BR>
was stumped, and she got the point. Personally, I get people who have<BR>
confused me for Irish, German, English, and a host of others.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 21:20:18 -0800<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Mars exploration<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
...<BR>
> >>None of this relates to mars exploration, of course.  There's no<BR>
> >commercial reason to go there.<BR>
...<BR>
> There was no reason to go to the New World either. (Drinking my chocolate<BR>
> milk, staring at the tobacco ad on the back of the magazine near me...)<BR>
<BR>
Ha ha!  That's really good.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand Hilton has started plans for an orbital hotel and an<BR>
aerospace firm (whose name I forget) has started making plans for<BR>
tourist cruises to the moon (orbital only no moon landing).  So,<BR>
tourism...<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  I once had a Traveller player who planned to have his character<BR>
buy a "book" of the "Seven Wonders of the Known Universe" and be an<BR>
interstellar tourist.<BR>
<BR>
Kristian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:25:35 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Keyboard Casualties<BR>
<BR>
FYI:<BR>
<BR>
I have counted three keyboard casualties today (16 Dec 99):  Doug Berry<BR>
(at 10:40 AM), Kenji Schwarz (at 3:48 PM), and Kiri Aradia Morgan (at<BR>
4:19 PM).<BR>
<BR>
I dunno.  Three keyboards in one day seems a bit high.<BR>
<BR>
Safety tip, people:  Sip, then swallow, _then_ open and read the next<BR>
TML post.  Do _not_ read any TML posts with beverage in hand or in<BR>
mouth.  Let's be careful out there....<BR>
<BR>
We now return you to your regularly-scheduled flamewars....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:23:06 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/16/99 5:13:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
kyle3054@yahoo.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Needless to say, I stopped seeing this girl soon<BR>
 thereafter... scary thing was, she's a cop, in<BR>
 multicultural Sydney... >><BR>
<BR>
Scarier thing; she's carrying a gun and has the power to arrest people...:-(. <BR>
I've worked with some losers like that before, but they were guys...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 16:38:26 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Politically Correct Season's Greetings<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Glenn said:<BR>
>I am suddenly reminded of an episode of the old SF comedy series, circa<BR>
>1978, in which they were celebrating a Christmas-type holiday, "Number 11".<BR>
<BR>
Quark.<BR>
<BR>
- - Hyphen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:48:36 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: They're coming! (again)<BR>
<BR>
> >"The summer sun is fading as the year grows old,<BR>
> > And darker days are drawing near.<BR>
> > The winter winds will be much colder,<BR>
> > Now you're not here."<BR>
<BR>
> Thanks for that.  I love this album.  Just rereading the above and having<BR>
> the tune kickstart in my memory has brought me out in goosebumps.<BR>
<BR>
I used that as the epitaph for a character who died in my Mage game.<BR>
<BR>
Personally I think that "Thunder Child" is the most stiurring song, as well<BR>
as having some great assonance<BR>
<BR>
"Lashing ropes and smashing timbers<BR>
Flashing heat-rays pierced the deck<BR>
Dashing hopes for our deliveance<BR>
As we watched the sinking wreck"<BR>
<BR>
I've always had  a "Thunder Child" with a similar history of stolidly facing<BR>
superior firepower inmy Traveller games for the Solomani. For Solomani Navy<BR>
IMTU "Remember the Thunder Child" has the same status as "Remember the<BR>
Alamo" for Texans.<BR>
<BR>
> course, given that the girl in WoW is called 'Carrie' I've often thought<BR>
> that Cliff Richard's "Carrie Doesn't Live Here Anymore" would be kind of<BR>
> appropriate - but not in the same league as the above.<BR>
><BR>
> Kai!  I get shivers down my spine when I hear that<BR>
>"and slowly, but surely, they drew their plans against us".<BR>
> Surely the catchphrase of every referee<BR>
> with half decent NPCs black hats.<BR>
<BR>
It's Sir Richard Burton's wonderfully resonant voice, the subsonics in that<BR>
first line<BR>
"No-one would have believed....." are great.<BR>
<BR>
Only James Earl Jones seems to approach that quality, and he's just not the<BR>
same.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 23:53:37 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Ethnic Confusions (was: Re: (Way OT and possible Flamebait))<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
> <BR>
> > I'm always confused by caucasians' inability to tell<BR>
> > one asian race from another: usually, I get it about<BR>
> > right (though some chinese look korean). What's more,<BR>
> > they think it makes no difference.<BR>
> <BR>
> Once a friend of mine at school, a Korean, was asked if she was Chinese by<BR>
> another friend of mine at school (who incidentally isn't caucasian, but<BR>
> that's beside the point). On the way to class, she complained about the<BR>
> inability of people to differentiate Koreans from Chinese.<BR>
> <BR>
> After she was finished, I asked her what ethnic group I was from, and she<BR>
> was stumped, and she got the point. Personally, I get people who have<BR>
> confused me for Irish, German, English, and a host of others.<BR>
<BR>
Ahh, that's nothing!  My ethnogenetic background is a mix of<BR>
Scotch-Irish, German, and Filipino, giving me olive skin, light brown<BR>
eyes, and curly brown hair.  I've had people assume that I speak<BR>
Spanish, and other people ask me what my plans were for Passover.  I<BR>
have that generic Mediterranean look, I guess, yet none of my known<BR>
ancestors are from the Mediterranean region.<BR>
<BR>
Even more amusing was my time in Saudi Arabia during DESERT<BR>
SHIELD/DESERT STORM.  As an Arabic linguist, I learned both Syrian and<BR>
Egyptian dialects, as well as "Modern Standard" Arabic (MSA).  Nobody in<BR>
the Arab world actually _converses_ in MSA, nor do I.  When I arrived in<BR>
Saudi Arabia, I consciously avoided speaking in Egyptian dialect, since<BR>
Egyptian dialect is largely different from MSA, while Gulf dialect is<BR>
much closer to MSA.  As a result, I tended to use Syrian dialect<BR>
pronunciations and phrasings.  Bottom line is, most Saudis with whom I<BR>
spoke asked me if I was Lebanese.  Between my Syrian/Lebanese accent,<BR>
and my Mediterranean appearance, they assumed that, while I was<BR>
obviously not a native speaker (in the sense that I do not have<BR>
native-level fluency in Arabic), I must have been a second or third<BR>
generation Lebanese.<BR>
<BR>
Rather than explain all of the above, I simply told them that, while _I_<BR>
was not Lebanese, my teacher was (mostly true, BTW [I had quite a few<BR>
teachers at the military language school, some of whom were Lebanese]).<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  I'm given to understand that Solomani are the most physically<BR>
diverse race of humaniti.  If this is the case, then I can see cases in<BR>
which either ethnic Solomani are mistaken for one of the other races of<BR>
humaniti, or members of another race of humaniti are mistaken for<BR>
Solomani, based on the combination of appearance and accent when<BR>
speaking a given language.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, many Solomani (even Imperial citizens of Solomani ancestry),<BR>
if mistaken for a "lesser" branch of humaniti, would likely take<BR>
offense.  Much comedy ensues....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:56:15 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
<BR>
On 12/17/1999 00:53, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
<snip>.<BR>
> <BR>
> ObTrav:  I'm given to understand that Solomani are the most physically<BR>
> diverse race of humaniti.  If this is the case, then I can see cases in<BR>
> which either ethnic Solomani are mistaken for one of the other races of<BR>
> humaniti, or members of another race of humaniti are mistaken for<BR>
> Solomani, based on the combination of appearance and accent when<BR>
> speaking a given language.<BR>
<BR>
Curious question then...if the Solomani are the most physically diverse,<BR>
then what parts of Earth did the Vilani and Zhodani come from?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:12:23 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
<BR>
"Josh W. Spencer" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On 12/17/1999 00:53, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
> <snip>.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > ObTrav:  I'm given to understand that Solomani are the most physically<BR>
> > diverse race of humaniti.  If this is the case, then I can see cases in<BR>
> > which either ethnic Solomani are mistaken for one of the other races of<BR>
> > humaniti, or members of another race of humaniti are mistaken for<BR>
> > Solomani, based on the combination of appearance and accent when<BR>
> > speaking a given language.<BR>
> <BR>
> Curious question then...if the Solomani are the most physically diverse,<BR>
> then what parts of Earth did the Vilani and Zhodani come from?<BR>
<BR>
Good question.<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone else have any good questions?  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Those TMLers who own any of the supplements dealing with the Vilani and<BR>
Zhodani can probably give more information on this subject.  Sadly, I am<BR>
not among their numbers.  C'est la vie.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:17:06 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
- --- Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
> Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Richard wrote:<BR>
> > >>You forgot the annual "Ethically Challenged<BR>
> > Merchants" debate. Of<BR>
> > course,<BR>
> > that was earlier this year.>><BR>
> > <BR>
> > what's that? An K'kree greengrocer trying to set<BR>
> up<BR>
> > business in a small Vargr town?<BR>
> <BR>
> No, that's the "_mentally_ challenged merchant"<BR>
> thread....<BR>
> <BR>
> "ECM" [Ethically Challenged Merchant] is a euphemism<BR>
> for the P-word.<BR>
> <BR>
Forsooth, I am a dolt. I read "ethically" as<BR>
"ethnically". <BR>
The P-word? Not, Psi? I pray not. To think, an entire<BR>
race breeding for an extraordinary mental ability,<BR>
just so they can cheat at cards and charades.<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:11:35 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
<BR>
ROFLMAOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E.<BR>
Berry<BR>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 2:14 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At 03:58 PM 12/16/1999 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
>BITS - British Isles Traveller Support<BR>
>http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
><BR>
>"Something wonderful is going to happen."<BR>
<BR>
"My God, it's full of penguins..."<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:16:40 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
<BR>
AAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!  SROFLMAOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Black ICE<BR>
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 1999 2:05 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Re: [BITS] Millennium Announcement<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> At 03:58 PM 12/16/1999 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
> >BITS - British Isles Traveller Support<BR>
> >http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
> ><BR>
> >"Something wonderful is going to happen."<BR>
> <BR>
> "My God, it's full of penguins..."<BR>
<BR>
From the movie "2001: At Close Quarters."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:28:26 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: crime explained (was chicks with guns and other OT madness)<BR>
<BR>
> By your logic, then, Canada, which has gun-control<BR>
> laws that are<BR>
> stricter than any found in the USA, should have a<BR>
> much higher violent<BR>
> crime rate. We do, in fact, have one that is much<BR>
> *lower*. One<BR>
> factor: <BR>
<BR>
Well, the ultimate explanation is simply that Canada<BR>
remains - despite the regrettable presence of<BR>
Frenchmen in the eastern regions - a Commonwealth<BR>
country, with Her Gracious Majesty as its head of<BR>
state. Whereas the more southern Americas severed<BR>
their ties with their noble monarchs some ten score<BR>
years ago, and decided to instead have a system<BR>
whereby they would have as leaders those elected on<BR>
the basis of wealth and popularity, thus ensuring that<BR>
only those of mean and low character, and shifty<BR>
demeanour, could become leaders; these people then<BR>
arise and decry indignantly the same leaders for their<BR>
lack of integrity, and claim to be genuinely surprised<BR>
at their behaviour. <BR>
<BR>
They choose to be led by peanut farmers, actors in<BR>
b-grade movies, and avoiders of military service, then<BR>
express puzzlement at the low character and poor<BR>
behaviour of the common folk. <BR>
<BR>
Therein lies the difference between the Dominion of<BR>
Canada and the Rebellious North American Colonies. But<BR>
fear not, Brittania shall rise again, and liberate the<BR>
oppressed masses of your continent, and Canada shall<BR>
be plagued no longer by the odiferous presence of the<BR>
whining masses who found their nation on the words,<BR>
"all men are created equal," written by a slave-owner.<BR>
<BR>
(slightly tongue in cheek):)<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:28:06 -0800<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Ethnic Confusions<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Josh W. Spencer <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>On 12/17/1999 00:53, Black ICE wrote:<BR>
>> ObTrav:  I'm given to understand that Solomani are the most physically<BR>
diverse race of humaniti.  If this is the case, then I can see cases in<BR>
which either ethnic Solomani are mistaken for one of the other races of<BR>
humaniti, or members of another race of humaniti are mistaken for Solomani,<BR>
based on the combination of appearance and accent when speaking a given<BR>
language.<BR>
><BR>
>Curious question then...if the Solomani are the most physically<BR>
diverse,then what parts of Earth did the Vilani and Zhodani come from?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
It doesn't matter-- they were taken long before recorded history and hence<BR>
before the various ethnic groups acquired their current appearances.  The<BR>
basic differentiation between black, white and Asian looking people may have<BR>
already occurred, but maybe not.  On the Trav Cult list we sort of are<BR>
assuming that individuals were taken from most of the different groups that<BR>
existed at whatever time it was and dumped on Vland and that the Vilani are<BR>
light brown sort of Polynesian looking people with curly hair and fairly<BR>
"mixed" looking features, IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
In the supplements I used to have, the Zhodani were always drawn as though<BR>
their ancestors had come from Mongo.  That sort of look can come from<BR>
Semitic, East Indian, and Asian ancestry although it really has its roots in<BR>
the demonization of the Japanese and Chinese earlier in this century and<BR>
late in the previous one.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan         93!      Thou Art God...<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"That wickedness weltering around inside of you, inside of everyone, is<BR>
sacred somewhere.  There's<BR>
a deity out here who digs it.  You can respect and love your darkest side,<BR>
disposing of only what is obsolete or impractical.  It's all about giving<BR>
yourself permission."<BR>
                                     -- Jack Darkhand<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 00:36:00 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: <BR>
<BR>
Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> > "ECM" [Ethically Challenged Merchant] is a euphemism<BR>
> > for the P-word.<BR>
> ><BR>
> Forsooth, I am a dolt. I read "ethically" as<BR>
> "ethnically".<BR>
> The P-word? Not, Psi? I pray not. To think, an entire<BR>
> race breeding for an extraordinary mental ability,<BR>
> just so they can cheat at cards and charades.<BR>
<BR>
No, the "P-word" is...<BR>
<BR>
*looks around, makes sure that nobody else is listening*<BR>
<BR>
"Pirate."<BR>
<BR>
*quickly ducks and runs*<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 22:40:21 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: racial make-up<BR>
<BR>
Seth Kimmel's Ob Trav: will the people of the third<BR>
Imperium all have light brown<BR>
skin as a <BR>
result of the various races interbreeding, or will<BR>
there still be lots<BR>
of <BR>
variation due to custom and the huge size of inhabited<BR>
space?<BR>
<BR>
Kyle's response: I would think it all depends on the<BR>
nature of the first colonists. When the future Zhodani<BR>
and Vilani got picked up, _which_ ones got picked up,<BR>
what did they look like? How old are distinct-looking<BR>
races on earth? My (guess) take on it is that the last<BR>
300,000 years have been enough to have several<BR>
distinct-looking races emerge from the original<BR>
ape-types of the African veldt, just from the<BR>
different climates and lifestyles of earth, so what<BR>
might the same period of time on different worlds do?<BR>
Were the Zho/Villy guys seeded to just two planets, or<BR>
hundreds?<BR>
<BR>
When colonists left earth, if they left in distinct<BR>
ethnic groups on large (100,000 people+) ships, it's<BR>
easy to imagine the worlds they go to ending up<BR>
looking the same, but go to another world, and...<BR>
<BR>
It also depends on how easy and common interstellar<BR>
travel is IYTU. I mean, it's only with the advent of<BR>
cheap intercontinental travel that we're getting lots<BR>
of interbreeding on earth, before that it was pretty<BR>
rare... Kiri was saying the average European can't<BR>
tell a frenchman from a german, and that's no surprise<BR>
since they've been mixing for centuries, being close together...<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Thousands of Stores.  Millions of Products.  All in one place.<BR>
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1513<BR>
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